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Thread: Brexit triggered - The Brexit plan

  1. #11

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    The most amazing part of Brexit is watching our politicians roll back on the promises they made to get people to vote to leave. Then point out that if you looked at the small print they didn'y actually promise anything, just said that they might possibly look at doing something.. but only if they feel like it.
    Then despite every interview with a member of the public telling them clearly why they voted to leave they re-interpret the vote to mean people in Britain just wanted to give even more power to the same politicians that have been letting them down since the end of the second world war.

    £350 Million back from EU contributions promised to the NHS and also promised to Farmers and also Promised to Scottish and Welsh and Promised to invest in Schools and on Fishing and on just about anything sles you like that will convince you to vote for us.... err! actually it was never really £350 Million more like £250 Million at best.... and we will still have to pay a big chunk of that to the EU for stuff we are legally bound to..... and whats left we can spend on anything we want to (which in practice means nothing we said we would spend in on, more likley to go on tax cuts for Corporations and the Rich or spent on infrastructure around London)

    Control of our borders! No more of that pesky immigration that overloads public services, takes jobs and holds down pay for those on low incomes...... err! we never said we would do anytihng about immigration, we just said we would have the ability to control it if we wanted to.... which we don't. Companies like the cheap labour and we can't afford to pay decend wages to public sector workers or pay to train Doctors, Nurses, Teachers or anyone else really. So we are going to keep on letting hundreds of thousands from all over the world into the UK but now there will be the illusion of us "choosing" to do so.

    Control over our own Laws. All those EU regulations that the Media mostly made up anyway (Bendy Bananas, Health and Safety Gone Mad etc.). We will still protect workers rights though!..... Well, actually we will import all of EU law into British law. we will keep the bits that suit us and hide our ideas for getting rid of those pesky workers rights laws in our manifesto for the next election. That way after we beat the pathetic excuse for an opposition with a landslide, we can say that you voted to let us do it which means you didn't want holidays, sick pay, pensions or any of the rest of it anyway.

    And the great thing about all this is once we screw you all over we can say there was a referendum and we are just following the 'WILL OF THE PEOPLE'. Best con ever!

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  3. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BondJmsBond View Post
    I don't know, those two sound pretty good...

    Thank you for the explanation, I somehow sense you two are against it.

    What are the good things about EU membership? Or is it more that the act of exiting in itself is the problem?
    I haven't got a problem with us leaving, I honestly think we would have been okay in or out. My problem is with the lying scumbag politicians on both sides of the arguement) who deliberately obscured the arguement to get peopple to vote for their side. An informed decision based on the true facts would have been the will of the people. Then whether it is a good choice or a bad choice we would all have had to live with the consequences together. The bad feeling towards politicians who now openly contradict what they told people a few months ago is growing over here, we will pull together and get through it as we Brits always do but I don't think we will ever have faith in the political class again.

    I know it is a utopian view but I think that pooling our sovereignty and building closer links is the only way we will tackle the problems of the world. Our problems are global, our Corporations are global. Splitting into smaller and smaller self interest groups just makes us more vulnerable and less able to deal with those global issues. United Federation of Planets!

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  5. #13
    Die Another Day BondJmsBond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiec View Post
    My problem is with the lying scumbag politicians on both sides of the arguement) who deliberately obscured the arguement to get peopple to vote for their side. An informed decision based on the true facts would have been the will of the people. Then whether it is a good choice or a bad choice we would all have had to live with the consequences together. The bad feeling towards politicians who now openly contradict what they told people a few months ago is growing over here, we will pull together and get through it as we Brits always do but I don't think we will ever have faith in the political class again.

    I know it is a utopian view but I think that pooling our sovereignty and building closer links is the only way we will tackle the problems of the world. Our problems are global, our Corporations are global. Splitting into smaller and smaller self interest groups just makes us more vulnerable and less able to deal with those global issues. United Federation of Planets!
    Wise words, thank you. Same thing here on the other side of the pond. The distrust of politicians imo is a large part of what brought us to Donald Trump, finagle help us.

    If we are brought to destruction it will be by lying scumbag politicians subverting truth for their own ends.

    Forget elections, let's pick random people out of the telephone book to lead us and we'll be much better off.

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  7. #14
    Super Moderator Misrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sp88 View Post
    i do wonder about the parity of the current economic union tho

    5 european nations contribute half of the eu's funding - more than half of the member nations are in deficit on their obligations

    i think a lot of people around europe are looking at the state of the eu and thinking "it hasn't helped us to all become more equal and now the minority are having to subsidise the majority"
    Living in a country that was backward when it joined the EU, membership certainly did make us become more equal. For the first decades, we were net recipients of EU funding; as we have got richer, we are now net contributors. I don't think any country is in deficit on their obligations; the calculation on who pays and how much is based on GDP. Countries with lower GDP pay less and may also receive more in, for example, structural funds. If the amount they receive is greater than what they pay, they are net recipients (as Ireland was for many years).

    Many of good things about being members of the EU are now taken for granted and people have forgotten their source. Minor details like equal pay for women, non-discrimination in everything, safe food, comprehensive and detailed food labelling (much more detailed than US), peace in Western Europe for 70 years, clean air, clean water, the list goes on and on. Oh, and much better privacy and security than other parts of the world. The EU is much stronger on protecting consumers than, for example, the US.

    Yes, I favour EU membership. It has been transformational for my little country and many of the things that people complain about and associate with the EU are actually things decided by their national government.

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  9. #15

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    Here we go Scotland calls for 2nd referendum

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

    Now all that freedom, self-determination rhetoric from from brexiteers suddenly becomes hippocritical if/when this request gets denied. Further more if it isn't denied it would make negotiations with the EU more awkard as the UK can't decide whether Scotland is part of it or not

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  11. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ra5whore View Post
    Here we go Scotland calls for 2nd referendum

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

    Now all that freedom, self-determination rhetoric from from brexiteers suddenly becomes hippocritical if/when this request gets denied. Further more if it isn't denied it would make negotiations with the EU more awkard as the UK can't decide whether Scotland is part of it or not
    What I love most about the Scottish independence arguement is that everything Nicola Sturgeon says about why Scotland should leave the UK is fundamentally the same as the arguement for the UK leaving the EU and everything Theresa May says about why Scotland should stay part of the UK is fundamentally the arguement for why the UK shouldn't leave the EU.

    Don't know why the Scottish parliament voted this through now though, they were told in advance the answer would be no and it seems to have set the Scottish people up for a lose/lose situation. They can either be out of the EU and out of the UK or out of the EU and in the UK which will have been distracted from negotiations with the EU by campaigning in Scotland and have ended up with a worse deal. Even if they get Nicola's dream scenario of out of the UK but miraculously still in the EU, she will have divorced from Scotlands single biggest trading partner to remain within an EU market which is worth 3 times less to Scotland.

    I would wait until Scotland can play both sides off to get the best deal for itself. My worst fear as a Welshman is that it gives our lot delusions of grandeur, I wouldn't trust our Assembly to run a bath!

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  13. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misrule View Post
    Living in a country that was backward when it joined the EU, membership certainly did make us become more equal. For the first decades, we were net recipients of EU funding; as we have got richer, we are now net contributors. I don't think any country is in deficit on their obligations; the calculation on who pays and how much is based on GDP. Countries with lower GDP pay less and may also receive more in, for example, structural funds. If the amount they receive is greater than what they pay, they are net recipients (as Ireland was for many years).

    Many of good things about being members of the EU are now taken for granted and people have forgotten their source. Minor details like equal pay for women, non-discrimination in everything, safe food, comprehensive and detailed food labelling (much more detailed than US), peace in Western Europe for 70 years, clean air, clean water, the list goes on and on. Oh, and much better privacy and security than other parts of the world. The EU is much stronger on protecting consumers than, for example, the US.

    Yes, I favour EU membership. It has been transformational for my little country and many of the things that people complain about and associate with the EU are actually things decided by their national government.
    It is worth pointing out that the funding the EU gives to net recipients isn't altruistic anyway. The reason us larger nations contribute a larger share that then helps transform countries like yours is because in the long run, once you become wealthy, you start buying German cars, British financial services and French.... err? Cheese? Wine? Fashion? Nuclear power stations maybe?

    Helping you get on your feet as a nation helps make us all wealthier.
    But if you could vote for us in the Eurovision song contest every now and then, it would be appreciated. It's embarassing to watch some years, even Australia gets more votes than us. My geography isn't great but how is that even possible?

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  15. #18
    jumping on eggshells sp88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ra5whore View Post
    Scotland calls for 2nd referendum [.....] hippocritical if/when this request gets denied.
    david cameron first announced the plan to hold a referendum on leaving the eu in january 2013 (should his party be returned to power, which it was)

    alex salmond announced the plan to hold a referendum on scotland becoming an independent country in march 2013

    one could argue that, when it voted, scotland knew full well that a brexit vote was on the horizon, and that a vote to remain in the union was a vote to abide by the democratic processes of that union
    "i know enough to know what's instantly forgettable"

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  17. #19
    Super Moderator Misrule's Avatar
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    US Commerce Secretary, Wilbur Ross, was in London recently. Ross is a billionaire Wall Street type who gave a speech to the Confederation of British Industry during which he said that

    "It is important that an eventual Brexit agreement takes into account our commercial interests and does not hinder development of a closer post-Brexit US-UK relationship by continuing divergence standards and regulations and other protectionist measures."

    Any decent UK government would have diplomatically but firmly told him to mind his own business. But the current UK government is in disarray and said nothing. His comments certainly say a lot about the nature of any future UK/US trade agreement. They also speak to the huge gulf between the US and the EU on regulation. To the US, and particularly to the current administration, regulation is seen as an impediment to business and to profits. To the EU, regulation is seen as a necessary check on the power of corporations and as a protection for citizens and consumers. Neither side is perfect and each use their position to protect their interests, but I know which side I would prefer to live.

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  19. #20

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    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...ur-own-brexit/

    I managed to get a 2nd referendum after 21 steps.

    For the other options soft, hard, unicorn brexits you have to loop through the madness a few times.

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