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Thread: Brexit triggered - The Brexit plan

  1. #141
    Persephone's Avatar
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    Boris Johnson, like Trump, has made an art of completely disregarding what he said before. There's literally a Trump tweet that's the complete and total opposite of what he's doing now, one example being his authorization of missile strikes on Syria in 2017 after he roundly criticized Obama for almost doing the same thing in 2013 (Obama eventually went to Congress but they refused to authorize, same thing happened with Cameron and the UK Parliament).

    the only major thing he hasn't backtracked on is the Central Five jogger case. (Quick elevator speech: after a jogger was brutally beaten and raped in 1989, Trump took out full-page ads rallying to reinstate the death penalty, and has continued to maintain that the five men who were convicted were still guilty, even though by now they found the ACTUAL CULPRIT, which should be pretty much total exoneration/vindication for the five accused.)

    Very interesting that Parliament has already passed a motion of sorts intended to disallow the PM from suspending Parliament during the final Brexit days, as what some have feared could happen if the entire system is still deadlocked on what to do.

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  3. #142
    Super Moderator Misrule's Avatar
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    You have to admire Boris Johnson for his long list of achievements. Within 2 days of parliament coming back from their recess he has:

    1. Lost his parliamentary majority
    2. Lost control of the parliamentary agenda
    3. Lost control of the Conservative Party
    4. Failed to prevent Parliament legislating against a no-deal outcome
    5. Failed in his attempt to have an early election
    6. Become a lame duck Prime Minister.

    Wow! Theresa May took 2 years to achieve something similar.

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  5. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misrule View Post
    You have to admire Boris Johnson for his long list of achievements. Within 2 days of parliament coming back from their recess he has:

    1. Lost his parliamentary majority
    2. Lost control of the parliamentary agenda
    3. Lost control of the Conservative Party
    4. Failed to prevent Parliament legislating against a no-deal outcome
    5. Failed in his attempt to have an early election
    6. Become a lame duck Prime Minister.

    Wow! Theresa May took 2 years to achieve something similar.
    You can add 7. Having his own brother resign to get away from his train wreck Government

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  7. #144
    No Time To Die BondJmsBond's Avatar
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    That was something to see. In the space of a seeming few days it went from Boris in Charge, Hard Brexit coming in 2 months No Matter What - now kerblam and that's all gone.

    It does show that the British government can get things done when they are inclined to.

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  9. #145
    Diva wildwest08's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    wish we had this here in the US

    the Speaker? (like the US, not sure the title) scolded them, told
    them they were little children, lol

    why the hell did we ever leave???!!







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  11. #146
    jumping on eggshells sp88's Avatar
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    we are not seeing the breakup of the conservative party, rather a thinning out of the dead weight

    this is a party who voted in one of the major protagonists of brexit as leader and, by extension, prime minister - it's nothing short of the conservative party declaring itself the party for brexit, above any other issue

    now it's up the other parties to fight over what's left - a 2nd referendum, a limp period of more delays and gaining little ground from the eu, cancelling brexit altogether, et cetera

    in this way, the conservatives are hoping that the nation will vote for brexit once again, just as it did before, in a general election and strengthen their position for another 5 years

    we have so few viable alternative options in the uk - the tories, loathsome as they may be, are playing it all exceedingly well ......... assuming the country votes the same way again

    that's the gamble they've gone for
    "i know enough to know what's instantly forgettable"

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  13. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by sp88 View Post
    we are not seeing the breakup of the conservative party, rather a thinning out of the dead weight

    this is a party who voted in one of the major protagonists of brexit as leader and, by extension, prime minister - it's nothing short of the conservative party declaring itself the party for brexit, above any other issue

    now it's up the other parties to fight over what's left - a 2nd referendum, a limp period of more delays and gaining little ground from the eu, cancelling brexit altogether, et cetera

    in this way, the conservatives are hoping that the nation will vote for brexit once again, just as it did before, in a general election and strengthen their position for another 5 years

    we have so few viable alternative options in the uk - the tories, loathsome as they may be, are playing it all exceedingly well ......... assuming the country votes the same way again

    that's the gamble they've gone for

    I dunno...it looks to me like that Boris is trying to appease the hard-right elements who want a hard Brexit, and that is going to crowd out the moderates that are supposed to be instrumental in keeping the party from shifting too far off-center (for both parties; but things are getting increasingly far-left and far-right; the danger can best be exemplified with Merkel's coalition partner losing a lot of seats in elections for being too centrist). Weren't the Tories all about pro-business? I dunno how anyone could spin it that hard/chaotic Brexit would be good for business.

    The pro-Brexit faction voted largely against Theresa May's deal, but she didn't order the whip removed. So if 21 Conservative Party members still vote against the PM under threat of being expelled, that should be a clear sign to the PM that his maneuver (or manoeuvre) sucks. Good on them for rebelling. I'm still waiting for the GOP to stand up to Trump's insane policies.
    Last edited by Persephone; 09-08-2019 at 06:50 PM.

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  15. #148
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    So, here we go. A tentative deal has been reached so far, tomorrow is when it goes before the House of Commons...a day or so before the law requires the UK government to ask for an extension if no deal is passed.

    I guess all eyes are on the DUP and whether they'll vote for it.

    I have no idea what Boris's backup plan is if it doesn't pass...

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  17. #149
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    The thing that concerns me the most is the erosion of trust that may last for years - maybe even decades - after Boris leaves office (whenever that may be). how is it that Letwin says that he backs Boris's plan but then introduces an amendment to make sure the Brexit legislation passes before they can vote on the actual withdrawal agreement? I mean, don't get me wrong, Boris has done this to himself, after trying to pull a fast one with prorogation of Parliament for five weeks, removing the whip from 20 "rebels" MPs, and showing absolutely no remorse or shame after the UK Supreme Court basically said that he deliberately misled the Queen on prorogation. And he's STILL trying to do this, with sending an unsigned letter asking for an extension and then a second letter after that saying he really doesn't want one. I mean, what a fucking buffoon. Pundits were already predicting he could do such a move and he actually did it.

    I see a parallel with the U.S with how Trump is warping and bending the rules and ethics and "the way things were done" and definitely the worse. Trump still hasn't done jack shit what he said he would - his assets are not in a blind trust; he hasn't released his tax returns (every other president has done so since back to Nixon); he's tried to dodge everything and anything. He's trying to pick a fight with California's right to set stricter emissions standards - and this isn't even a partisan issue, as every presidency since the Clean Air Act (which was introduced and passed during Nixon's administration) has granted CA the waiver to write its own rules. Now GM is siding with Trump, provoking what is sure to be an all-out war and bifurcating the car market. You know what? I wouldn't even be sad if GM went bankrupt for foolishly trying to back Trump. Trump will be eventually gone - if not in 2020, then in 2024 - and nobody else on the GOP actually wants to continue this silly, petty fight.

    Sorry this got a bit too U.S-centric.

    Next thing to watch: how long of an extension the EU grants. Boris still wants an election for 12/12/19. But he already lost the first motion when Labour (again) largely abstained from voting.

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  19. #150
    Super Moderator Misrule's Avatar
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    The extension has been granted by the EU; to January 31 2020, or until the Brexit deal is approved by the UK Parliament if that is earlier.

    Today, the House of Commons is fighting about having an election. They would all have agreed to an election if they trusted the Prime Minister (Boris Johnson). However, he has such a long history of blatant lies that nobody trusts him. Hence, they are bickering about which date in December - Boris suggested 12th, others thought that too late as students (who are usually registered where they go to college) would have left for Christmas break. Lib Dems suggested 9th, which is too tight to get all the essential legislation passed and comply with the minimum notice for a general election. Currently, 10th or 11th seem possible.
    But, there is lots of political game playing to be done before the vote this evening...

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